{"id":9867,"date":"2023-08-05T14:45:41","date_gmt":"2023-08-05T18:45:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kerryhannon.com\/?p=9867"},"modified":"2023-08-05T14:47:38","modified_gmt":"2023-08-05T18:47:38","slug":"my-power-trip-with-msnbcs-katty-kay","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/kerryhannon.com\/?p=9867","title":{"rendered":"My power trip with MSNBC&#8217;s Katty Kay"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"caas-content-body\">\n<div id=\"content-wrapper\">\n<div id=\"module-article\">\n<div id=\"caas-art-3efdccc1-42bc-4502-acb5-573bde079bae\" class=\"caas caas-cc finance enableAdSlotsOneSlot enableCommentsCountViaOpenweb enableExpApi enableInArticleAd enableSingleSlotting enableVideoDocking enableXrayCardsFollowButton enableXrayEntityAboutFacts enableXrayHyperloopCards enableXrayNcp enableXrayTickerEntities exposeYctIds hulkMonalixaUpsell noRapidClickClass outStream showCommentsIconInShareSec caas-click-attached\" data-assets=\"[]\" data-device=\"desktop\" data-i18n=\"{&quot;{0} Views&quot;:&quot;{0} Views&quot;,&quot;LESS&quot;:&quot;Less&quot;,&quot;MORE&quot;:&quot;More&quot;,&quot;SEE {0} MORE&quot;:&quot;See {0} more&quot;,&quot;SEE_LESS&quot;:&quot;See less&quot;,&quot;SEE_MORE&quot;:&quot;See more&quot;,&quot;VIDEO_A11Y_DISABLE_FULLSCREEN&quot;:&quot;Full Screen, button, disabled, temporarily not available for screen reader users&quot;}\" data-lang=\"en-US\" data-tz=\"America\/New_York\" data-params=\"{&quot;features&quot;:{&quot;enableAdSlotsOneSlot&quot;:true,&quot;enableCommentsCountViaOpenweb&quot;:true,&quot;enableExpApi&quot;:true,&quot;enableInArticleAd&quot;:true,&quot;enableSingleSlotting&quot;:true,&quot;enableVideoDocking&quot;:true,&quot;enableXrayCardsFollowButton&quot;:true,&quot;enableXrayEntityAboutFacts&quot;:true,&quot;enableXrayHyperloopCards&quot;:true,&quot;enableXrayNcp&quot;:true,&quot;enableXrayTickerEntities&quot;:true,&quot;exposeYctIds&quot;:true,&quot;hulkMonalixaUpsell&quot;:true,&quot;noRapidClickClass&quot;:true,&quot;outStream&quot;:true,&quot;showCommentsIconInShareSec&quot;:true},&quot;config&quot;:{&quot;authorBylineCollapseLineCount&quot;:2,&quot;commerceQuickOverviewLimit&quot;:5,&quot;freezeOnLinkClick&quot;:true,&quot;lazyOffsetY&quot;:1300,&quot;livecoverage&quot;:{&quot;defer&quot;:false},&quot;imageCaptionCollapseLineCount&quot;:3,&quot;uiShowPreviousButtonOnLoad&quot;:true,&quot;prestigeScrollMarginTop&quot;:-72}}\" data-space-id=\"1197809822\">\n<article class=\"caas-container\" tabindex=\"-1\" role=\"article\">\n<div class=\"caas-body-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"caas-body-content\">\n<div class=\"caas-body-inner-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"caas-body-section\">\n<div class=\"caas-content wafer-sticky\" data-wf-sticky-boundary=\"caas-body-section\" data-wf-sticky-offset=\"165px 10px\" data-wf-sticky-target=\".caas-share-buttons\">\n<div class=\"caas-content-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"caas-content-byline-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"caas-content-contain-share\">\n<div class=\"caas-attr-separator\">\n<div class=\"separator-ext\"><span style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif;\">Why does power still seem so elusive for women?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"caas-body\">\n<p>That\u2019s the fundamental question that authors Katty Kay and Claire Shipman explore in their new book \u201cT<a class=\"link \" href=\"https:\/\/www.harpercollins.com\/products\/the-power-code-katty-kayclaire-shipman?variant=40911546220578\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener sponsored\" data-i13n=\"cpos:1;pos:1\" data-ylk=\"slk:he Power Code;cpos:1;pos:1;elm:context_link;itc:0\" data-rapid_p=\"9\" data-v9y=\"1\">he Power Code<\/a>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kay is a correspondent for the BBC and a MSNBC contributor. Shipman spent three decades as a television journalist on ABC News, NBC News and CNN. The duo have written four\u00a0<em>New York Times<\/em>\u00a0bestsellers including \u201cThe Confidence Code.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/finance.yahoo.com\/news\/qa-power-tripping-with-msnbcs-katty-kay-170103566.html\">Read on Yahoo FInance<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>For the new book, they interviewed scores of academics, neuroscientists and psychologists to examine the power plays between men and women \u2014 and business leaders who are working to change the dynamic.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWomen just don\u2019t see power, or use it, the way men do,\u201d they write. This is true in the workplace, in politics, in personal relationships and in family life, Kay told Yahoo Finance recently.<\/p>\n<p>She offered some advice and insights. Edited excerpts:<\/p>\n<h2><strong>What pushed you and Claire to write this book now?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>We\u2019ve stalled. When you think that only 10% of CEOs are female, only 27 of the world&#8217;s 200-odd countries have female leaders&#8230;there seems to be something happening at the very top. Despite the fact we have all of the skills to lead, we&#8217;re not getting there.<\/p>\n<p>You think about the fact that women are better educated than men. We have more undergraduate degrees. We have the talent and the leadership in a brain economy. We just wanted to know what was happening at the very top and that meant investigating power.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"caas-figure\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"caas-img-container noheight\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"caas-img caas-lazy has-preview caas-loaded\" src=\"https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/ny\/api\/res\/1.2\/klQa4OVBdJwAh36GcZ7ZCw--\/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtjZj13ZWJw\/https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/os\/creatr-uploaded-images\/2023-07\/92e8a8c0-223b-11ee-b1ff-8341bc7441fd\" alt=\"The Power Code cover\" data-caas-lazy-loading-init=\"1\" \/><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"caption-wrapper caption-aligned-with-image\">\n<div class=\"caption-wrapper caption-aligned-with-image\"><\/div>\n<\/div><figcaption class=\"caption-collapse\" data-id=\"m-0\">The Power Code cover<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h2><strong>Do women really want power?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>We came across a\u00a0<a class=\"link \" href=\"https:\/\/www.hbs.edu\/ris\/Publication%20Files\/Gino%20Wilmuth%20Brooks%20PNAS%202015_de166813-0839-4942-ab7f-54aaea19ba92.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener sponsored\" data-i13n=\"cpos:2;pos:1\" data-ylk=\"slk:study;cpos:2;pos:1;elm:context_link;itc:0\" data-rapid_p=\"10\" data-v9y=\"0\">study<\/a>\u00a0\u2014 suggesting that women actually don&#8217;t want power, or at least they don&#8217;t want power as it is currently conceptualized. That made us really intrigued. The reason that women don&#8217;t want power is that women have life values \u2014 things we want to do with our lives. The cost is too high for us to attain power.<\/p>\n<p>Power itself is also kind of toxic. It doesn&#8217;t look very appealing to women\u2013the egos, the competitive nature of it, the hierarchical nature of it. The traditional understanding of power has been one that is zero sum more for you, means less for me. It stands to reason that women may turn away from it.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Power can come from work promotions \u2014 does that differ between men and women?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>Men are often being promoted on the basis of promise \u2014 the promise that they can achieve things at a later date. Women are promoted on the basis of performance that they had to already have achieved those things. That stacks the playing field against us.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"caas-figure\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"caas-img-container noheight\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"caas-img caas-lazy has-preview caas-loaded\" src=\"https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/ny\/api\/res\/1.2\/W6kh5Lhba2L2tZX3Dm5OVg--\/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtjZj13ZWJw\/https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/os\/creatr-uploaded-images\/2023-07\/daf88900-223b-11ee-9fef-6410b8e34392\" alt=\"Katty Kay\" data-caas-lazy-loading-init=\"1\" \/><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"caption-wrapper caption-aligned-with-image\">\n<div class=\"caption-wrapper caption-aligned-with-image\"><\/div>\n<\/div><figcaption class=\"caption-collapse\" data-id=\"m-1\">&#8220;We&#8217;ve stalled&#8221;: Katty Kay (Photo courtesy of Katty Kay)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h2><strong>How do the characteristics of power differ between men and women?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>Men score better on the things that, on the traditional characteristics of leadership, would give you power. Things like assertiveness, charisma, ambition. Women score better on things like empathy, compassion, listening, consensus.<\/p>\n<p>What we&#8217;re saying is that those qualities are fairly random qualities that we associate with power just because they&#8217;ve always come with power. The qualities that women bring to the table when exercised in leadership are incredibly powerful, useful, impactful qualities. So we need to start thinking about whether the definitions of the people we see as powerful are the right ones.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>What are a few ways women can tap into power?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>Practice priming. You can literally prime your brain to feel more powerful by thinking of a time when you had power and writing about it with pen and paper. And that will actually access power in your brain. Before a big job interview, or any other important work event, set aside ten minutes. Recall a time in your life when you have felt powerful \u2014 a time when you were influencing others to make a change.<\/p>\n<p>Write it down. Don\u2019t just write about the actual event; write about how it made you feel. Neuroscientists say writing on paper is more effective than typing on smartphones or tablets because it takes you more deeply back to that memory, and connects your brain with it.<\/p>\n<p>(Also) start complaining in real time. As we write in our book, you can make the world better for those below, and for yourself, when you call out biased behavior as it happens. It creates a small ripple, and it\u2019s remarkably effective. Or try, \u2018Let me finish,\u2019 when you\u2019re being cut off. That\u2019s the kind of language men respond to. It&#8217;s very clear and it doesn&#8217;t sound whiny. It has an enormous amount of impact when you do it in the moment.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>You write about limiting free labor? Can you explain?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>Women are often asked to do non-promotable tasks \u2014 anything to do with food in your office, organizing drinks, organizing the brown bag lunches, organizing the follow-up meetings, organizing the onboarding of interns. These are all things that are very important to making an organization run smoothly and making it a place that good talent wants to work in. But these tasks nearly always fall to women, and they don&#8217;t get you on the promotion track.<\/p>\n<p>Find a way to slash about half of them.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"caas-figure\">\n<div class=\"caas-figure-with-pb\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"caas-img-container\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"caption-wrapper caption-aligned-with-image\"><\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<h2><strong>Another piece of power advice you and Claire give is to be the CFO of your household. Can you elaborate?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>If women don\u2019t address the power balances at home, they are never going to have the time or the energy to get power outside of the home. Leaving your partner to run the household finances can be disempowering. You&#8217;re giving away power. You need to know what is going on with your investments.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of women, including a lot of well-educated, professional women, have surprisingly little involvement in their own finances. That needs to change. Start with this reality check. Do you know how and where your savings are invested? Are you involved in drawing up your family\u2019s tax return?<\/p>\n<h2><strong>How can we make women want power?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>Joy. The idea that power and joy go together is not one that one often thinks of. But we chose it very carefully because the women leaders who we profile in the book \u2014 the editor of\u00a0<em>The Economist<\/em>, the first black CEO of an NBA team, a woman parliamentarian in Senegal, Africa \u2014 were all women who found joy in their positions of power. And we&#8217;re not talking about candlelight and walks on the beach. We&#8217;re talking about the kind of profound satisfaction that comes from improving your community, whatever that community is, and having an impact and seeing that people are doing their best work because you have facilitated them to do so.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Parting thought?<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>This is not an academic Pollyanna view of the world. This is being done already by women all over the world. It&#8217;s not being rewarded and it&#8217;s not being valued to the degree that it needs to be.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed wp-block-embed-youtube is-type-video is-provider-youtube epyt-figure\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\"  id=\"_ytid_61886\"  width=\"640\" height=\"360\"  data-origwidth=\"640\" data-origheight=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/bB5m28z6hr0?enablejsapi=1&autoplay=0&cc_load_policy=0&cc_lang_pref=&iv_load_policy=1&loop=0&rel=1&fs=1&playsinline=0&autohide=2&theme=dark&color=red&controls=1&\" class=\"__youtube_prefs__  no-lazyload\" title=\"YouTube player\"  allow=\"fullscreen; accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen data-no-lazy=\"1\" data-skipgform_ajax_framebjll=\"\"><\/iframe><\/div><\/figure>\n<div class=\"caas-attr author\">\n<p><a class=\"link caas-attr-logo\" href=\"https:\/\/www.yahoo.com\/author\/kerry-hannon\/\" data-ylk=\"elm:author;slk:Kerry Hannon;itc:0\" data-rapid_p=\"7\" data-v9y=\"1\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"caas-img\" src=\"https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/ny\/api\/res\/1.2\/4SPbKFGNjBI4WwNS..te9A--\/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTgwO2g9ODA7Y2Y9d2VicA--\/https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/os\/creatr-uploaded-images\/2023-07\/41712030-1c23-11ee-bcf7-7d286db2677e\" alt=\"Kerry Hannon\" data-src=\"https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/ny\/api\/res\/1.2\/4SPbKFGNjBI4WwNS..te9A--\/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTgwO2g9ODA7Y2Y9d2VicA--\/https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/os\/creatr-uploaded-images\/2023-07\/41712030-1c23-11ee-bcf7-7d286db2677e\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"caas-attr-meta\">\n<div class=\"caas-attr-item-author\">\n<p><span class=\"caas-author-byline-collapse\" data-id=\"m-0\"><a class=\"link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.yahoo.com\/author\/kerry-hannon\/\" data-ylk=\"elm:author;slk:Kerry Hannon;itc:0\" data-rapid_p=\"8\" data-v9y=\"1\">Kerry Hannon<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<div class=\"caas-attr-item\">Senior Columnist<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"caas-attr-time-style\"><span class=\"caas-attr-mins-read\">6 min read<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"caas-content-contain-share\">\n<div class=\"caas-attr-separator\">\n<div class=\"separator\"><em style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif;\">Kerry Hannon is a Senior Reporter and Columnist at Yahoo Finance. She is a workplace futurist, a career and retirement strategist and the author of 14 books, including &#8220;<\/em><a class=\"link \" style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif;\" href=\"https:\/\/kerryhannon.com\/?page_id=9253\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener sponsored\" data-i13n=\"cpos:3;pos:1\" data-ylk=\"slk:In Control at 50+: How to Succeed in The New World of Work&quot;;cpos:3;pos:1;elm:context_link;itc:0\" data-rapid_p=\"12\" data-v9y=\"1\"><em>In Control at 50+: How to Succeed in The New World of Work&#8221;<\/em><\/a><em style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif;\">\u00a0and &#8220;Never Too Old To Get Rich.&#8221; Follow her on Twitter\u00a0<\/em><a class=\"link \" style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica 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data-wf-caas-uuid=\"11486b10-f7e5-434d-b9ca-7cf4ea1346dd\" data-rapid_p=\"1\" data-v9y=\"1\">T-bills look even better for savers after the Fed&#8217;s latest interest rate hike<\/a><\/h4>\n<div class=\"StretchedBox Z(1)\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"action-bar Mt(8px) Mend(8px) D(f) Fld(r) Fxw(w) Jc(sb) Ai(c) Mih(19px) Pos(r)\">\n<div class=\"Fz(12px) C($commentColor)\"><span class=\"provider-name D(ib) Va(m) Ell Maw(115px)\">Yahoo Finance<\/span><span class=\"separator Px(4px) Va(m)\">\u00b7<\/span><span class=\"mins-read D(ib) Va(m) Ell Maw(115px)\">5 min read<\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"actions\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<ul class=\"common simple-list Pstart(0) List(n) Mt(24px)\">\n<li class=\"common simple-list-item stream-item D(n):e Mih(74px) Mt(28px) Mt(0):fc js-stream-content\">\n<div class=\"item-hover-trigger Pos(r)\">\n<div class=\"item-img-wrapper Pos(r) Fl(end) Mstart(20px) Ov(h) Fxs(0) Bdrs(8px) Z(0)\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"simple-item-content\">\n<h4 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